Brainwaves
Episode
17
Hey friends,
I got a message recently that broke my heart. A parent wrote about watching their incredibly smart teenager go from curious and engaged to completely shutting down around anything school-related. The transformation wasn't gradual. It was like watching a light switch flip off. One day their child was asking endless questions about everything, and the next they were convinced they were "just not smart enough" for school.
This story isn't unique. It's happening in classrooms across the country, and it's not because these kids lack intelligence or motivation. The reality is far more complex, and understanding why bright ADHD students struggle so much in traditional educational settings might change how you think about learning entirely.
To understand this better, we knew we needed to bring in the experts. We reached out to our friends at Fusion Academy, and they sent us their best, Joie Laykoff, Senior Director of Teaching & Learning. With a background in special education, psychology, and mindfulness, plus 14 years of experience working directly with students who struggle in traditional settings, Joie has seen firsthand what happens when education is redesigned around student needs rather than institutional convenience.
Understanding the mismatch
Before we dive into solutions, it's crucial to understand what we mean when we talk about educational environments that work for ADHD students versus those that don't. This isn't about good schools versus bad schools, or caring teachers versus uncaring ones. It's about recognizing that one-size-fits-all education simply cannot accommodate the diverse ways ADHD brains process information, maintain attention, and demonstrate knowledge.
Traditional classrooms operate on several assumptions that don't align with ADHD brain function. They assume all students can focus for the same duration, process information at the same pace, and demonstrate learning through standardized methods. For neurotypical students, these assumptions often hold true. For ADHD students, they create barriers that can be insurmountable.
The term "mastery learning" becomes important here. In traditional settings, curriculum moves forward on a predetermined schedule regardless of whether individual students have truly grasped the concepts. Students with ADHD often need more time to process information, different approaches to understand concepts, or additional practice to achieve mastery. When the class moves on before they're ready, they fall behind (not because they lack ability, but because they haven't been given adequate time to succeed).
Why ADHD students struggle in traditional classrooms
The attention paradox
One of the most misunderstood aspects of ADHD is attention regulation. As Joie explains, ADHD students don't have an attention deficit. They have attention dysregulation. This means their brains struggle to direct and sustain attention on command, especially for tasks that don't provide immediate interest or reward.
In a classroom of 30 students, distractions are everywhere. The rustling of papers, conversations in the hallway, the fluorescent lights humming overhead. All of these compete for an ADHD student's attention. While neurotypical students can filter out these distractions and focus on the lesson, ADHD students often cannot. Their brains are trying to process everything at once, making it nearly impossible to zero in on what the teacher is saying.
This leads to a vicious cycle. The student appears inattentive or disruptive, receives negative feedback, feels shame about their inability to "just pay attention," and becomes even more dysregulated. Each negative interaction chips away at their confidence and willingness to engage.
The speed trap
Traditional education operates on rigid timelines. Lessons must be completed within class periods, units must be finished by certain dates, and standardized tests must be taken on predetermined days. For ADHD students, this pace often feels impossible to maintain.
These students might need extra time to process information, require multiple explanations before concepts click, or need to approach problems from different angles. When they're constantly rushing to keep up, they never get the satisfaction of truly understanding the material. Instead, they develop the belief that they're "slow" or "not good at school."
The irony is that many of these students, when given adequate time and proper support, demonstrate exceptional understanding and creativity. They simply need permission to learn at their own pace rather than the pace dictated by a curriculum guide.
The confidence crash
Perhaps the most devastating consequence of the traditional classroom mismatch is what happens to students' self-perception. Bright, curious children who enter school excited to learn begin to internalize the message that something is wrong with them.
When a student repeatedly struggles with tasks that seem easy for their peers, they naturally conclude that they must be less capable. They don't understand that their brain simply works differently. They only know that school feels hard and confusing in ways that don't make sense.
This confidence crash affects far more than academic performance. It shapes how students see their potential, their willingness to take risks, and their belief in their ability to succeed at anything challenging. Many ADHD students develop learned helplessness, giving up before they even try because they've been conditioned to expect failure.
The power of personalized approaches
Relationship before curriculum
Joie emphasizes that the most successful educational approaches for ADHD students prioritize relationship building before academic instruction. This isn't just nice-to-have warmth, it's a pedagogical necessity. As she explains using Fusion's pyramid model, love comes first, then motivation, and only then teaching. ADHD students who feel judged, misunderstood, or constantly corrected cannot access their learning potential.
When students feel genuinely seen and valued by their teachers, several important things happen. Their nervous systems become more regulated, making it easier to focus and process information. They're more willing to take academic risks because they trust that mistakes won't result in shame. And they begin to rebuild the confidence that may have been damaged by previous school experiences.
This relationship-first approach requires teachers to get curious about each student as an individual rather than viewing them through the lens of their challenges. What are their interests? What motivates them? What learning environments help them feel successful? These questions become more important than standardized assessment scores.
The motivation bridge
Once a foundation of trust and safety has been established, the next focus becomes motivation. ADHD brains are often called "interest-based nervous systems" because they function best when engaged with material that feels personally relevant or inherently interesting.
Traditional education often tries to motivate through external pressures (grades, consequences, or rewards that feel disconnected from the learning itself). ADHD students respond much better to intrinsic motivation, the satisfaction that comes from mastering something challenging or exploring a topic that genuinely captures their curiosity.
This means successful ADHD education requires creativity in connecting curriculum to student interests, providing choices in how learning is demonstrated, and celebrating progress rather than just end results. It also means recognizing that the path to motivation might look different for each student.
Mastery over movement
In traditional classrooms, the pressure to move through material on schedule often means that struggling students get left behind. They're expected to keep up with new concepts even when they haven't fully grasped previous ones, creating a shaky foundation that makes future learning even more difficult.
Joie explains that ADHD students thrive in environments that prioritize mastery over speed. When they're allowed to truly understand concepts before moving on, they often demonstrate exceptional depth of knowledge and creative thinking. The key is removing the artificial time pressure that makes learning feel like a race rather than an exploration.
This approach also allows for the kind of individualized instruction that ADHD students need. Some might need visual representations of concepts, others learn better through hands-on activities, and still others might need to move around while processing information. When mastery is the goal rather than uniformity, these accommodations become natural parts of the learning process.
What parents can do to support their ADHD student
Shift the focus to strengths
One of the most powerful things parents can do is deliberately shift their attention from what their child struggles with to what they do well. This doesn't mean ignoring challenges, but rather ensuring that strengths get at least equal time and energy.
ADHD students often develop something called "deficit-focused identity." They begin to see themselves primarily through the lens of what they can't do rather than recognizing their unique gifts and capabilities. Parents can counter this by actively noticing and celebrating their child's strengths, interests, and progress.
This might mean paying attention to how they problem-solve when working on something they enjoy, recognizing their creativity in approaching tasks differently than expected, or celebrating their persistence when they stick with challenging projects that capture their interest. The goal is helping them develop a more balanced and accurate self-perception.
Practice collaborative problem-solving
Rather than trying to fix problems for their ADHD teen, Joie recommends that parents involve them in identifying challenges and brainstorming solutions together. This approach respects the young person's growing independence while providing the support they need to develop problem-solving skills.
The process starts with agreeing on what the actual problem is. Instead of saying "you're disorganized," try "it seems like keeping track of assignments is feeling overwhelming right now." Then work together to generate potential solutions. The teen might have insights into what approaches feel manageable or what obstacles need to be addressed.
This collaborative approach accomplishes several important goals. It helps teens develop executive functioning skills they'll need as adults. It prevents the power struggles that often develop when parents try to impose solutions. And it builds the teen's confidence in their ability to handle challenges independently.
Advocate for appropriate educational environments
Sometimes the most important thing a parent can do is recognize when their child's current educational environment isn't working and advocate for something different. This doesn't necessarily mean changing schools, but it does mean becoming an informed advocate for your child's needs.
Start by learning about your child's legal rights under Section 504 and IDEA. Understand what accommodations might help your child succeed in their current environment. Be prepared to have specific conversations with teachers and administrators about what your child needs to learn effectively.
If accommodations aren't sufficient, don't be afraid to explore alternatives. This might mean looking into schools with smaller class sizes, programs designed specifically for students with learning differences, or alternative scheduling options that better match your child's needs.
Separate relationship from academics
One of the most challenging but important things parents can do is protect their relationship with their child from academic stress. As Joie explains in the episode, when homework battles and grade discussions become the primary interactions between parent and child, it damages the foundation of trust and connection that the young person needs most.
This might mean stepping back from homework supervision, finding tutoring support outside the family, or simply making sure that academic conversations don't dominate family time. The goal is ensuring that your child sees you as their advocate and supporter rather than another source of academic pressure.
Remember that your relationship with your child will outlast their school years. Preserving that connection often matters more than ensuring perfect completion of any particular assignment.
Looking beyond the diagnosis
Focus on behaviors, not labels
While understanding that a child has ADHD can be incredibly helpful for accessing appropriate support, it's important not to let the diagnosis become the child's entire identity. Instead of thinking "my ADHD child can't focus," try framing it as "right now we're working on attention regulation skills" or "we're figuring out what environments help with concentration."
This shift in language might seem subtle, but it's profound. It moves from a fixed mindset (this is who you are) to a growth mindset (this is something we're working on). It also helps the young person understand that their challenges are specific and addressable rather than fundamental character flaws.
When discussing challenges, try to be as specific as possible. Rather than saying "you're so disorganized," try "it looks like keeping track of assignments in multiple subjects is feeling overwhelming." This specificity makes problems feel more manageable and solutions more attainable.
Build self-awareness without shame
Help your ADHD teen develop accurate self-awareness about how their brain works without attaching shame to the differences. This means having honest conversations about executive functioning challenges while also highlighting the strengths that often come with ADHD brains.
Explain that needing different strategies or accommodations doesn't mean they're less capable. It means they're learning to work with their brain rather than against it. Help them understand that successful adults with ADHD have learned to create systems and environments that support their unique way of processing the world.
This self-awareness becomes crucial as young people transition to adulthood and need to advocate for themselves in college, work, and personal relationships. The goal is helping them become informed self-advocates rather than trying to hide or minimize their differences.
When the system isn't working
Recognize the signs
Sometimes parents need to make difficult decisions about their child's educational environment. Signs that a current placement isn't working might include persistent academic failure despite obvious intelligence, increasing anxiety or depression, loss of interest in learning, or deteriorating family relationships due to school stress.
Other red flags include teachers who seem unwilling to provide accommodations, administrators who don't understand ADHD, or environments where your child's self-esteem is consistently being damaged. Trust your instincts as a parent. If your gut tells you that your bright child is being failed by their current situation, that intuition is worth exploring.
Remember that struggling in one environment doesn't predict failure in all environments. Many students who seem destined to fail in traditional settings thrive dramatically when placed in environments better suited to their learning style.
Explore alternatives
The good news is that educational options have expanded significantly in recent years. This might include public schools with specialized programs for students with learning differences, private schools designed around different pedagogical approaches, online programs that allow for more individualized pacing, or hybrid models that combine various approaches.
When evaluating alternatives, look for programs that emphasize relationship-based teaching, allow for individualized pacing, provide small class sizes or one-on-one instruction, and demonstrate understanding of how ADHD affects learning. Ask about their philosophy regarding students with learning differences and their track record of success.
Don't be afraid to think creatively about what education might look like for your child. The goal is finding an environment where they can develop both academic skills and confidence in their ability to learn and succeed.
The long view
The most important thing to remember is that school struggles don't predict life outcomes. Many successful adults with ADHD had challenging school experiences but went on to thrive in careers and life situations that better matched their strengths and interests.
Your job as a parent isn't to fix your child or make them fit into systems that weren't designed for their brain. Your job is to help them understand how they learn best, develop strategies for managing challenges, and maintain confidence in their ability to succeed.
Sometimes that means making difficult decisions about educational environments. Sometimes it means advocating fiercely for accommodations. Sometimes it means stepping back from academic pressure to focus on relationship and mental health. Trust yourself to know what your child needs most at any given time.
The goal isn't perfect grades or seamless school experiences. The goal is raising a young person who understands their strengths, knows how to get support when they need it, and believes in their ability to create a successful and meaningful life.
Your ADHD teen isn't broken, deficient, or less capable than their peers. They simply need the right environment and support to let their natural intelligence and creativity shine. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is believe in them when they can't believe in themselves.
Until next time,
✨ O'Ryan and the Shimmer Team
Episode Transcript
O'Ryan: Hey there. My name's O'Ryan. This is Trina,
and you are listening to brainwaves. Today we are joined by Joie Laykoff, who is on a mission to change the way we think about school. Joie is the Senior Director of
Teaching and Learning at Fusion Education Group. Her background is in special education, psychology, and mindfulness.
In today's episode, we talk to
Joie about. Designing
programs that help students, especially those with ADHD
thrive,
and ways that you as a parent can. support your child. And with that,
joie-laykoff: Hello.
O'Ryan: So Joie, I hear that you manage 80 plus campuses. Could you tell me a little bit more about that and what you guys, are doing at Fusion Academy?
joie-laykoff: I definitely can. I think we're at about 82 campuses and we also have a huge virtual arm to what we do, and Fusion is just an amazing program. It's really unique. I love to talk about it. Also been with Fusion for a very long time. I feel like I, I look quite young, but when I tell you how long I've been there, you're gonna be like, wait, did you start when you were 10 years old?
And that is not the case. been with Fusion for going on 14 years,
O'Ryan: Wait, did you start when you were a teen?
joie-laykoff: I know I'm telling you. but what's exciting about that is I actually started at our West Los Angeles location and it was our first replication.
O'Ryan: Oh, wow.
joie-laykoff: our sort of like mothership is in Solana Beach and. Our home base, if you will, is in San Diego. And so it's just been a really exciting journey to watch how our schools and our organization has grown from, the second school in West LA to now, as you mentioned, over 80 schools.
really unique about Fusion and what we're known for is that we work with students in a one-to-one setting, and we focus on really the holistic growth of our students. And let me break that down for just a minute. I think it's always helpful for people to understand that when you walk onto one of our campuses, it's going to look very different from a traditional environment. again. Not, I noted earlier we have a virtual program, so I'm just explaining our, we call them our brick campus locations, but when you walk in, what's really unique about them is because we work with our students one-to-one, our teachers have offices all along the perimeters, and those are their classrooms. And so every hour they're seeing a different student. And then in the center of our campus, we have what we call a homework cafe. We might get into more detail about that later, but the Homework Cafe is a space where students both complete their independent work and they interact socially with their peers. So it's just a, a very different feeling when you walk onto a Fusion campus and while we primarily work with students one-to-one, and that's the program that is, is most popular that I think serves the widest range of students. We do also have. That virtual program, as I mentioned, we have, a self-directed program, an asynchronous program, and we also offer some small group. So there are different options when you enroll at Fusion. I think the biggest thing to take away from it is that everything we do is personalized. So whether that's actually personalizing the instruction within every class that you take, that a student takes or personalizing the program that we set up for a student. is gonna be unique to each student, so there's a lot more to learn about Fusion, but I'll pause there.
O'Ryan: So Trina and I both have ADHD and I can imagine when. I was a, kid, first of all, I was late diagnosed, so I didn't even know when I was a kid that I had ADHD. But I can imagine
joie-laykoff: Yeah.
O'Ryan: if I was a kid and had access to a program like this, I feel like I would've definitely thrived, I think, because what I know of the, what you guys do sounds amazing.
But I guess I'm curious, for a teen who maybe has ADHD or maybe doesn't excel in a typical, education environment, how does Fusion differ and how are you thinking about education differently?
joie-laykoff: So it's a great question, and wanna start by just acknowledging that when the Fusion program began a few decades ago, it was, there was nothing like it. And there was, it was either you were in the traditional program or, there really wasn't, there weren't any other options. And Michelle Rose Gilman is our founder, and when it started in San Diego, the whole idea. out of a need for students at a traditional setting, not being able to access the instructional environment. And so they would come to Fusion, for tutoring support, and then this sort of idea. Evolved. And the thought was could this tutoring program be a full-time school rather than being a supplemental program and students having to go all day to a traditional program and then still go to school after that to be able to pass their classes. What if this was the school? And that was incredibly revolutionary. And I think to this day it still is, we have a lot more options since COVID in terms of. Interesting programs that students can enroll in that are just, gaining more momentum. But this idea is still pretty unique to have students be able to access education in a one-to-one environment and really meet their needs.
And so there's a few things that Fusion does really well. First of all, we serve students with social, emotional and learning differences, and I think what allows us to do that so well is. The fact that we work one-to-one with students. And so I mentioned earlier that we emphasize this personalization, and so in our environment we have total freedom to be able to get creative and differentiate for students based on whatever behaviors are getting in the way of them accessing their learning.
So that's number one. second thing is that we focus on mastery learning. And mastery learning is something that we talk a lot about in the field of education, and it's really hard to do outside of a one-to-one educational setting. and what that means is that we work with students until they demonstrate mastery.
Whereas
a traditional setting, you have to move on at some point. And that's, there are just limitations in a classroom where you only have a certain number of days in a school year and you have to move on. And if you've got a couple students that aren't grasping the concepts, you just do your best.
And it's not to say anything about a teacher, you just, you gotta move on. at Fusion. The nice part is that we can continue in the content and make necessary tweaks and adjustments so that students can demonstrate mastery because we don't have any of those barriers that you might see in other settings. But then there's the third thing, and I think the third thing makes a really big difference, and it's been part of our philosophy since day one, and I think it's the thing that we celebrate ourselves the most for, which is that we consider our teachers mentors. Not just teachers. And so we prioritize relationship first.
And so we have this really cool kind of pedagogy philosophy where we put love at the foundation we've been unafraid to talk about that in that students have to feel really cared for in the classroom and really seen and valued. And from there we've got this pyramid. So it goes love, and then it goes motivate and then teach at the top. And the idea is that you cannot. Get to that instruction part until a student feels seen and cared for You can't even start to motivate them until that's there. So just to summarize all of that personalization, the mastery piece, and the relationship based teaching, those are the three things that really make us unique.
O'Ryan: I think it's interesting because when you think about like traditional schooling, you're right, like you have classroom of 30 plus kids and have to go for the common denominator, right? Where it's okay, this is where the average of the class is, And now we can move on.
we have this curriculum that we have to stick to For folks who don't match that kind of standard way of being taught, like you get left behind.
joie-laykoff: Yeah.
O'Ryan: I'm curious.
joie-laykoff: and I'll say too, O'Ryan, there's, it's not, we think that the students who aren't doing well in that traditional setting, maybe they don't have the aptitude,
O'Ryan: Yeah.
joie-laykoff: not the case at
O'Ryan: Yeah.
joie-laykoff: And So many of our students will come in and they will be impacted by a learning difference. By the way, also, maybe something socially is going on, something emotional is going on that is very common among adolescents. I didn't say this earlier, but we serve middle And high school students, and so that social emotional development during those times is just, a little chaotic. it's something is getting in the way and there's, it doesn't mean that there's something wrong.
And I'll say that to anyone who's listening Something wrong with your child. It just means that they need a little more attention and personalization. And we see that for a lot of our students that, they might come to us and have, failed a series of math classes and think they're terrible at math.
And then it's okay, let's slow down a little bit. Let's back up, let's tweak some things here and there. And it turns out now you know, you're seeing this student really excel and find a love for a subject that they, that was totally getting in the way of their whole self perception.
O'Ryan: You mentioned before this kind of like pyramid that, of the relationship. I'm curious, why do you think that's so hard for like standardized education, but then also why do you think that works so Well, for you guys?
joie-laykoff: I think it's really just the system and. So I'm a classroom teacher and that's my background. I, my background is in special education. And interesting too, when you had said earlier, I have ADHD and I would've in a program like this. I have a very similar recollection and sentiment of the students that I used to work with and how each of them were with, with their own differences and. I struggled to serve them in a classroom setting only because everyone needed something a little bit different. So it wasn't that I was an incredibly and caring and compassionate, I think I had the right mindset and philosophy as a teacher to, bring that love and care into the classroom.
But, at the end of the day, I'm trying to, first of all, I was teaching middle school, so shuffling between a lot of different subjects, but. It was really hard for me to be able to take that time and address each student individually, and I would find certain ways, I I would invite students up to my desk and we would spend time together and we would do like rotations where I would be able to give them feedback on their work specifically.
But let me tell you, if a student was having a bad day or if I recognized in one of those feedback sessions that the student really needed some more reteaching. That's when I would get stuck. I would, okay, let's talk at lunch. Okay. Let's, can you stay after school a little bit later and we can work through this.
So I, I don't think it's for a lack of care by any teacher, by most teachers. I'm sure we've all had a teacher too, that we thought that was the case. But think the system is, makes it, really difficult to give that personalized attention. and, that's why I say it's. the setting, the fusion, setting that one-to-one.
We get a lot of teachers who teach for fusion because they also didn't feel like they were finding success with students in the classroom. And they're going, oh, teach one-to-one. Okay, that's pretty cool. Like I can start to see more tangibly how my students are making gains or I can start to really slow down and meet their needs because teachers are feeling it too, not just the students they know. the kids that they're not reaching and they just frankly don't have the time.
O'Ryan: Trina, I'm wondering if your experience was the same. I know like, for me, growing up in school, I I certainly had those teachers that were able to notice me And call me out and focus on me and give me that attention that I needed. and they definitely made all the difference. And I can imagine like how, I don't know how important that, is for a kid
trina-haynes: you were talking about like math, I, was thinking about how in high school I really, struggled in the math classes and then when. I got to college. There were just a lot more resources. There was tutoring, there was more help, more one-on-one help available. And I was actually really good at math and I thought I was horrible at math, in high school.
So I could see how one-on-one or like very personalized care would make sense, especially for an ADHD. Child or teenager. And then also like the amount of distractions in a public school, like when I'm trying to learn in a room full of 30 students and like I can hear every pencil, I can hear, every noise.
And the kids that are throwing paper and like how truly distracting that was for me in the educational setting. And so Yeah. I just, I could see why it would work for maybe a neurodivergent teenager
joie-laykoff: We work with a lot of students who have ADHD. Frankly. We also work with a lot of adults who, again, I think are recognizing that this might be a better alternative and also have an easier time. With that connection with their student and valuing that teaching dynamic. But, all the things I think that plague our students that have ADHD, it's really difficult, the disorganization that comes up, that's something that we can very much mentor and guide in both the classroom and the homework cafe.
As I was mentioning earlier, we have our homework cafe staffed with teachers as well. So it's a place for that independent work to be done. It's a place for socialization. there's multiple homework cafes on each campus, and we have adults in there that are helping to guide with executive function skills especially, but Trina, exactly, with the distraction. I think that's a great example of where. Just the context itself, just being one-to-one without adding any sort of pedagogy there that allows for the learning to be a lot more accessible. But I think the thing that we see that's most, in some ways it's like heartbreaking and then so but a lot of our students will come in with really low confidence and feeling like. What's this whole education institution about? And that discouragement. And that's sometimes at best, at worst it's I'm just not gonna go to school anymore. and then they come to Fusion and give us a chance and work with our teachers, our mentors, again, one and the same for us.
And you start to see that confidence build over time and. A lot of times we'll sit in intakes with families and you'll ask, what are post-secondary plans? And there may not be any because the confidence isn't there. Again, it doesn't mean the skills are there, they're hiding. The aptitude is there, and so then those conversations start to generate a little more slowly over time.
Okay. There is, could be a future here. So we get to experience those success stories a lot and I say it's heartbreaking because sometimes we feel like. Maybe it took students a really long time to get to Fusion and we wish we would. We could have started with them sooner, and we hate to see them beginning with us in a place that feels so low.
But then, a lot of our staff will tell you that their favorite days are our graduation days because stories that each of our students tell, they get to get on stage and give their own speech. Every student is remarkable. So
I got a cool job.
O'Ryan: Yeah. def certainly, I think it's interesting the confidence part. 'cause I'm thinking back to when I was in school and there were certain, like math is certainly one of those I think with most people deal with this, but it's especially insidious with folks with ADHD because there's this kind of weird mental trick that happens when you try something and you don't get that immediate dopamine.
You're like, I don't want to do this anymore. And so with schooling, you end up in this situation where okay, you're in a math class. And you sit down to do the speed test or whatever, and you, your brain is like distracted and all these things happen. You get an F and now you're like, I'm bad at math.
I hate this. I don't ever wanna do this again. But it's just that, like we were saying, it's, I've never had the opportunity to be good at it, to experience what feeling, being good at it is, and that the traditional schooling system isn't set up to give me that opportunity. And so then I exclude it.
from my future because I don't get dopamine from this, so it's not something I'm interested in.
joie-laykoff: And that's, so remember I was talking about that pyramid and that middle part is motivate and we often will say, success begets more success.
O'Ryan: The idea is it may mean that you have to lower the bar for a moment and, but then you can build on that. And so the idea always is, I think I said this earlier, just meeting students where they're at,
Yeah.
joie-laykoff: so much of this is about the emotional attachment or detachment that they have to learning. And so if we can, build that relationship, so Then there's this safe environment. once there's that trusted dynamic between the teacher and the student, then we can, start to understand first of all what their goals are, what their interests are. That's part of motivation as well, where their strengths lie. That plays into the instruction side of things, and then in that instruction, it's let's it is that's gonna make this student feel successful. We may not step into writing an entire essay or reading an entire novel or. Or what have you, what we say in, as teachers, as trained teachers, we always wanna look at that zone of proximal development. So
that thing that's gonna, it's like just right outside of a student's ability to do it, with an instructor, right? So it's
O'Ryan: Yeah,
joie-laykoff: it's gonna push
O'Ryan: I,
joie-laykoff: a little bit, but not so far that they're gonna give up.
O'Ryan: I imagine that there's a lot of parents listening to this interview, even, especially that like they see their child struggling. Or they see their child already past the struggling phase and in the disinterested phase, and they know that their child is smart and capable, and there's this disconnect I can imagine for a parent to say, I know that they're capable, but I just don't know how to get them from A to B.
And I'm wondering if maybe you could shine a light on maybe for a parent who's looking to bridge that gap with their child. what are some things that maybe they could start doing at home or maybe even just reframes on how they can start thinking about this.
joie-laykoff: and I'll call out too. one of the things that we did as part of the Homework cafe is we recognized that a lot of our families were coming in just feeling so much frustration within the family system. And so it's not just the. Weight of it that the student themselves or the child was carrying, but it was impacting everyone.
And so what we do at Fusion is we do our best to make sure that none of that independent work goes home, that it's done on campus. And
O'Ryan: we have daily communication that goes out to families. But what we really wanna do is, again, recognizing that our goal is to support the student holistically. that, we're removing some of that stress that was happening with the family. Hopefully creating an opportunity for those relationships to heal. And so if you're a parent at home and you're, working with your child and you're noticing that, there's, there are these frustrating conversations and that they're not having success, first and foremost, I think the most important thing is look at our framework a bit and just focus on the relationship with your child and take academics outta the picture because that is likely coming from your own fear as a parent.
joie-laykoff: is absolutely understandable, but at the same time, that's probably going to be exacerbating what's happening for your child. And so working on meet them where they're at, have fun with them, have conversations with them that have nothing to do with academics. Show that you care. Be consistent.
Provide that, unconditional support for them. And I do think it's important too. with their teachers and determine if there's a different type of program out there that would help them. And so we can pull that thread about what to do at home. And I, but I think at this point, if you're a parent listening to this podcast and things have been really challenging, I would actually say loosen the grip on the academics right now and focus more on the relationship because that's gonna have the longer term effect.
Then I think there's this effort towards how do we help bridge whatever gap is existing within the school. And there are a couple of things that I would say based on my experience, I didn't mention this earlier. I know O'Ryan you had asked me, but I previously was actually had started as a teacher at Fusion and then, I was our director of education and then our head of school at that West LA location. And then for the past probably eight years now, I've been on our education team. So I spent many years directly with families on that campus. and, I.
think there are a lot of things that. you can do if you don't feel like, you're necessarily in the right program and, you know, what to be looking for from teachers.
So we can pull that, thread or we can talk about what to do at home,
O'Ryan: Yeah, maybe a good question, and Trina definitely jump in here 'cause I know you have a teen right now. I'm curious when you have teens joining the program, what are some of the things that
parents and teens are struggling with. And do you often notice that there might even be, 'cause you mentioned pulling off the reins a little bit and letting go because you might be creating unhelpful pressure. And I'm curious, do you see people coming in with these, oh, this is what my teen is struggling with and this is what we need to fix, and, but then maybe there being like a reframe or a disconnect somewhere
joie-laykoff: I think many times when things aren't. Going according to plan. We might have a sense of, our child is doing something wrong or, is broken in some way. And I think it's really important to start to take more of that, strength based approach with your child. And it is very easy. we have that negativity bias already built into our, the way that we're modeled as humans.
And It's easy for us to pay attention, especially if you have a child with ADHD, it's like distracted, you're disorganized, you're,again, the success in school, like those things are going wrong or, that comment of can you just pay attention? And, so it's easy to focus on those things.
So I think it, it does require some intention to focus on what is it that your child. Is having success with and funneling your energy and attention in that direction. So it may be some extracurriculars, it may be just the way that,if they're helpful at home, it could be that they have a particular hobby or interest that they're investing in themselves and starting to get a bit more curious there, or seeing if there's additional opportunities to help strengthen that.
But I think a lot of times it is focusing our attention on what's going well versus. What's not going well. And I think when we can focus on what's going well. then we can start to figure out how do we, again, as I mentioned, like how do we invest more of our time and energy into that? And I think that's something that, is a best practice is with wellbeing, but I think with our kids we can get easily distracted.
So I would say that's one reframe. A lot of times when families will come in and talk with us about their child, it is oftentimes about, what's not going well. And so for us, because we know that we can personalize, we start to ask more questions about, what has worked well in the past? And,what are strategies that seem to go over well? What are some of the things that they're interested in? Tell us about the last project that they seem to invest a bit more time in. Or. If they were to pick out a book right now, what topic would they be most interested in reading?
So it's not so much looking at, what's not going well, where is it that we have some opportunities? And I think that can make a big difference.
trina-haynes: I love that because we talk so much about like strengths based approach here at Shimmer. Like it definitely aligns with like how we talk with our members and how we talk on the podcast and everything we talk about is very like strengths based approach. And even within our team, we're always like trying to like steady our strengths and our values and like what, and we try to hone in on those.
So like definitely makes sense to me that would like work for. Teens with ADHD. 'cause it works for me as an adult with ADHD. yeah, I think that's really interesting. And then also I made a little mental note because the pyramid that you guys use with love at the bottom and then, motivate and then teach like that makes sense also for parents in my opinion.
Like I have a teenager and like I feel like I like that. Like love is the foundation. And then, motivate. Always trying to motivate her to get stuff done and then that pyramid makes sense for me for that could also work at home, I believe. that could be a good place to start.
joie-laykoff: I also feel like important that when we're talking about our child, we don't define them by the diagnosis. And this
that's come up as far as how we personalize in the classroom because we don't look at a diagnosis, any diagnosis, and believe that we understand who this child is. And maybe as a parent. been so much talk about the ADHD that your child becomes the ADHD. And so I think there's an opportunity to step away from that and say, well, what are the behaviors are most problematic right now? And I think in some ways that can tighten the lens a bit and make it feel a bit more manageable because we're not, it's the analogy of eating an elephant. It's let's just take those small pieces here and. it the distractibility? Is it the disorganization? What is it? Is it the prioritization? Pick a couple of things that are really getting in the way. And I think partnering with our children, particularly when we're talking about those that we serve, middle and high school students, and I having them in that conversation to be like, okay, what's, feeling the most difficult right now? and then okay, from there, if it's the disorganization, are we open to trying a couple of things? And we do this practice a lot at Fusion. It's called collaborative problem solving, where you are collaborating with the students. And it's a practice that's used at home as well. In fact, I think it is very promising when used between parents and children, but to identify the problem together. And then to say, okay, let's come up with some solutions. So if it is the disorganization, if it is the prioritization, but it's not the whole thing. It's not all the things that we're having trouble with, but let's just choose one. And I do think sometimes like that can bring the overwhelm down a bit.
I.
O'Ryan: I think that's such a powerful thing, especially for confidence. For your teen, is you go from the stage of being a parent and having to manage a toddler and having to wrangle them and you're constantly corralling them to now you have a young adult who has their own wants, their own desires, their own needs, and you're scared for them because you're about to push them out into the world and this kind of, maybe this feeling of I need to corral them even more to make sure that they're doing what they need to.
This protection kind of kicks in. But I think that collaborative problem solving aspect is super interesting to me because now you're, no longer their shepherd. you're inviting them in to have control over their life. I know for me, like that's gonna be the best thing that's gonna help me feel confident is having experience making decisions.
joie-laykoff: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's like teaching our children, because I think the more we talk about the diagnosis, the more it becomes the central difficulty in our lives, and I think it's important. in the way that we can help our children, our students learn about who they are. I think that is helpful.
And so it doesn't have to be this enemy for them,
O'Ryan: this window into maybe something that has felt really confusing and made you feel really different and now you've got some language around it. And
Yeah.
joie-laykoff: a parent, maybe allowing. This opportunity to help your child learn about themselves, be more prominent than the progress that they're making through school.
We, we just sometimes have to push that to the side and say, okay, right now is an opportunity to maybe build some awareness and to build some skills, but not necessarily be hyper-focused on achievement.
So I would say if you're listening to this and you have a child with ADHD and school hasn't been going well. I would pause on the emphasis of that for a moment and I would lean into building relationships with your child. I think that is first and foremost what we emphasize at Fusion, and I think it is a piece of advice that is both something that drives our education philosophy, but is just as valuable in the personal world.
but I'll also say something else. if school is not going well, your child needs you to be their advocate. And it is important for us to look for schools that have philosophies and approaches where, the adults are caring, their creative, they're curious, and it doesn't mean, going to battle with your child's school program, but. walking away from this podcast and just knowing that there are a lot of creative options out there, and if your child is not experiencing success, and instead you're seeing their confidence wane, let's start to look for something different. Build your relationship with your child and let's start to look for something different because it doesn't have to be this hard.
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